DE LUXEMBOURG, Otgive

  General Notes:

Ogive "Otgive" de Luxembourg formerly Luxembourg aka van Vlaanderen, of Flanders

  Research Notes:

https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Luxembourg-9
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Biography

About Ogive von Luxemburg, Gravin van Vlaanderen (Comtessse de Flandres) Ogive de Luxembourg, (v. 990 † 1030), fille de Frédéric de Luxembourg, comte en Moselgau

Parents: Friedrich von Luxemburg & (daughter of) von Hammerstein Spouse: Baudouin IV 'le Barbu' de Flandre Children: 1. Baudouin V 'le Pieux' de Flandre 2. Ermengarde, married Adalbert (not listed in MedLands)

Baldwin and Farmerie's Henry II ancestry articles give a detailed discussion to explain why there are doubts about the exact parents of Otgive, writing, "While there seems to be a good case for making Otgive a daughter of Giselbert rather than of Frédéric, the case does not seem strong enough to set aside the "standard scenario" definitively. Thus, we leave the question of Otgive's parentage as unsettled between the two alternatives. It is interesting to note that Giselbert's candidacy as a possible father of Otgive has been widely overlooked".[1]

However, Douglas Richardson. in his latest work, Royal Ancestry, published in 2013, has chosen Giselbert as the son of Sigefroy and Hedwg and the father of Otgive, see Vol 5 at p 503, 504.[2]

LINKS http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/LUXEMBOURG.htm#Ogivedied1030

Ogive von Luxemburg1 F, #104758, b. 986, d. 21 February 1030 Last Edited=27 Oct 2013

Ogive von Luxemburg was born in 986.2 She was the daughter of Friedrich I von Luxemburg Graf im Moselgau and Ermentrude von der Wetterau Gräfin von Gleiberg. She married Baldwinus IV Graaf van Vlaanderen Comte de Ternois et St. Pol et d'Artois, son of Arnulf II 'the Younger' Graaf van Vlaanderen Comte de Ternois et St. Pol and Rozela d'Ivrea, in 1005.2 She died on 21 February 1030. Children of Ogive von Luxemburg and Baldwinus IV Graaf van Vlaanderen Comte de Ternois et St. Pol et d'Artois Ermengarde van Vlaanderen2 d. 1071 Baldwinus V Graaf van Vlaanderen Comte d'Artois Markgraaf van Ename+1 b. 1013, d. 1 Sep 1067
MEDIEVAL LANDS

FRIEDRICH, son of SIEGFRIED Comte [de Luxembourg] & his wife Hedwig --- (-6 Oct 1019). "Domna Berta, viri illustris Volcmari comitis relicta" donated property "in pago Moselensi in comitatu Waldeleuinga cui Gisilbertus comes…villa Mudenfert" to St Maximin, Trier by charter dated 996 witnessed by "Friderich comes"[71]. Herimannus names "Theoderico Metense episcopo et Heinrico Baioriæ duce Fridericoque comite" as brothers of "Adalbero clericus, reginæ Cunigundis germanus", when recording their rebellion against Emperor Heinrich II in 1008[72]. He is named "Fridericus, frater Cunigundæ imperatricis" when his death in 1019 is recorded[73]. Graf im Moselgau. Vogt of Stablo and Malmédy.

m --- [von Hammerstein] heiress of Gleiberg, daughter of HERIBERT Graf im Kinziggau Pfalzgraf [Konradiner] & his wife Imiza --- (-after 985). The parentage of the wife of Graf Friedrich is suggested by the Vita Adelheidis which names "Irminthrudis, Alverad [et] Berthrada" as the three sisters of Adelheid, daughters of "Megengoz" & his wife, specifying that Irminthrudis was grandmother of "Heinrici magnifici ducis et Adhelberonis Metensis episcopi, Friderici ducis"[74], although the primary source which confirms the name of her father has not yet been identified.

Graf Friedrich & his wife had ten children:

OGIVE (-21 Feb or 9 Mar 1030, bur Gent St Peter). The Genealogica Comitum Flandriæ Bertiniana names "filiam Gisleberti comitis Odgivam" as wife of "Balduinum Barbatum"[116], the marriage presumably being arranged by Emperor Heinrich II as part of the alliance negotiated in 1012. Ogive is shown as daughter of Graf Friedrich in Europäische Stammtafeln[117]. There is no reference to Friedrich's older brother Giselbert having married and had children. The chronology does not favour Ogive being the daughter of Giselbert, son of Friedrich. It is therefore assumed that the reference to "Gisleberti comitis" is an error, although the primary source has not yet been identified which confirms that Friedrich was Ogive's father. The Annales Blandinienses record the death in 1030 of "Odgiva comitissa"[118]. The Memorial of "Odgiva…Balduino domino" records her death "IX Mar"[119].

m ([1012]) as his first wife, BAUDOUIN IV "le Barbu/Pulchrae Barbae" Count of Flanders, son of ARNOUL II "le Jeune" Count of Flanders & his wife Rozala di Ivrea [Italy] ([980]-30 May 1035).

Count Baudouin IV & his first wife had one child:

a) BAUDOUIN de Flandre ([1012/13]-Lille 1 Sep 1067, bur Lille St Pierre). The Genealogica Comitum Flandriæ Bertiniana names "Balduinum Insulanum" son of "Balduinum Barbatum [et] Odgivam"[205]. He succeeded his father in 1035 as BAUDOUIN V "le Pieux/Insulanus" Count of Flanders.

~~~

1.Sex: F 2.Birth: BET 984 AND 995 in Luxemburg 3 2 3.Death: 21 NOV 1030 3 2 4.Note: Otgive of Luxemburg Wife of Baldwin IV, count of Flanders.

Date of Birth: Say 980×995. As is usual for this period, it is difficult to narrow down an accurate estimate for Otgive's birthdate. However, we know from Guillaume de Jumièges that Otgive's son Baldwin V temporarily rebelled against his father Baldwin IV (who died in 1035, after a reign exceding 47 years), being reconciled by the influence of Robert of Normandy [GND vi, 6 (2: 52-5)], and Vanderkindere mentions an undated act in which Baldwin V and his wife Adèle participated during the life of Baldwin IV ["Balduinus marchysus cum Adela uxore sua adhuc vivente patre suo" Vanderkindere (1902) 1: 298, citing Van Lokeren #108]. Thus, Otgive's son was probably already an adult when he succeeded in 1035. In the other direction, her husband Baldwin IV was still a minor when he succeeded in 987×8, and was probably born after 980 (his father Arnulf II being an infant in 962). Thus, a birthdate for Otgive in the stated interval seems likely. Note that various attempts to narrow down her birthdate further have generally been based on the assumption that her parentage was known. Assuming that she was a daughter of one of the two candidates listed here, her birthdate would most likely be toward the end of the interval given above. Place of Birth: Unknown.

Date of Death: 21 February 1030. Place of Death: Unknown. ["Obiit Odgiva comitissa." Ann. Bland., s.a. 1030, 25; similarly in Ann. Elmarenses, s.a. 1030, 90, Ann. Formos., s.a. 1031, 126]. Her claimed epitaph, which gives a death date of 21 February (9. kal. Mar.), reads as follows: "Preteriens miserere mei, qui vis misereri, / Atque mihi requiem tu deposce piam. / Nona dies Martis me sustulit ante kalendas, / Odgiva iuncta fui Balduino domino." [MGH Poet. Lat. 5: 300]. The necrology of St. Michael, Lüneburg, has an entry "Gera com" under 21 February, which Althoff would interpret as "Geva com", and assign to Otgive, noting that her husband Baldwin IV also appears in the necrology [Althoff (1984), 391 (G 17), 399 (G 55)].

Father: Either Frédéric (d. 1019) or Giselbert (d. 1004), both sons of Sigefroid "of Luxemburg". Otgive's parentage is discussed in detail below in the Commentary section.

Mother: Unknown. Her identity would clearly depend on whether Otgive's father was Frédéric or Giselbert.

Paternal grandfather: Sigefroid/Siegfried "of Luxemburg". Despite the uncertainty regarding her father, both of the plausible candidates were sons of Sigefroid.

Spouse: Baldwin IV, d. 29 or 30 May 1035, count of Flanders.

Child: MALE Baldwin V, d. 1 September 1067, count of Flanders. http://sbaldw.home.mindspring.com/hproject/prov/otgiv000.htm

[benbrink.FTW] Type: Ancestor NOTE: This Charlemagne lines is in dispute. The line as recorded here issubstantially based on pages 21 and 22 of Moriarty's PlantagenetAncestry, modified by ES, VI 1987: tables 127 and 128, with the othersources supporting. For a learned discussion of this problem, the readeris referred to 'Inconsistencies in the Pedigrees of the Counts ofLuxembourg,' by Charles Recker, in TAG, 58:14-17 (Jan 1982). [Stuart,Roderick W., Royalty for Commoners, 3rd ed., 1998] Father: Frederick I b: ABT 965 Mother: Ermentrude Von Gleiberg b: ABT 965

Marriage 1 Baudouin IV b: ABT 980 in Flanders, France

* Married: ABT 1012 4 3 Children

1. Has Children Baudouin V b: ABT 1012 in Flanders, France
Sources

? Stewart Baldwin. The Henry Project -Otgiva of Luxemburg
? [Giselbert, Son of Seigfroid and Hedwig: Royal Ancestry Vol 5, page 503,504, Douglas Richardson]

http://www.thepeerage.com/p10476.htm#i104758


[``` = I omitted what looks like someone's copy/paste of foreign language wikipedia - however it is important to note that these are sometimes far more detailed than the native English language Wikipedia site - in other words, they are not identifical which I found while working on the Thirty Years War Project. -ST]

Otgive married Baudouin FLANDRE on an unknown date. (Baudouin FLANDRE was born about 980 in Mer Du, Nord, Nord-Pas-de-Calais, France and died on 30 May 1035 in Flanders, Nord, Nord-Pas-de-Calais, France.)